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Posted by Rod |
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I just did two gybes in a row in the start of the Kergulen timed race. In the first I forgot about the 93% and my perf dropped below 85%. I started the second gybe with a perf of 89% and stepped around in about 4 or 5 steps, completing my gybe at a perf of 90% increasing my perf at each step.
I contend this is vital information that should be known to all, that it cannot be derived by direct observation, or by prior knowledge of how a sailboat performs in reality! If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by A2 ![]() |
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These discussions have occurred in the past but it tends to run in cycles so that when it re-emerges often what was once public knowledge can subside into a quasi state of urban lengend.
Finding these nuggets in this Forum can be a challenge even if you are looking for something that you yourself have posted. ========================= Wrong Speed VMG Posted by Jakob Kuttenkeuler 2009-02-09 (discussing performance loss model) "Well, the current model determines if the maneouver is a tack or a gybe or just a minor change in twa (dTWA is the twa change). If (tack or gybe) {e = 1.0-self.bs/200.0} else {e = 1-abs(dTWA)/25.0}. perf = perf*e. However if perf<0.93 no further maneouver loss is done. something like that." --- Last Edited by A2R at 2013-10-11 13:48:19 --- None so blind |
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Posted by Rod |
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Many thanks, A2R!!!!
That is the information that we should have had right at the beginning of this whole discussion. I hope that it will be incorporated in the Manual in a prominent position. I have inquired about the perf loss problem several times over the last three four years and, until now, never received even a hint of an answer P.S. I will attempt to generate a diagrammatic representation of this situation for the benefit of those among us who are more comfortable with diagrams than equations. P.P.S. Now all we need to find out is the rate at which the Performance returns to 100% after a Tack, Gybe, or Course Change. I do hope someone will post the info---in the meantime I will experiment in the Kergulen screen (there are no good windows in the time remaining.) --- Last Edited by Rod at 2013-10-11 14:33:17 --- --- Last Edited by Rod at 2013-10-11 14:41:56 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by A2 ![]() |
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Well depending on your Point of View it was either hiding in plain sight or it was a needle in the haystack, so to speak.
I found it because I went looking for it, plain & simple, as anyone could have done. None so blind |
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Posted by Rod |
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You can only look for things that you suspect do exist. My point is that there is nothing in the performance of a sailboat during a change in course that would lead anyone to suspect that the loss of speed would be reduced by dividing the course change into two steps. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by A2 ![]() |
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I neither knew that it existed or that it did not exist. Looking is a choice as is not looking. I found more than I expected to, so let's move forward from here. None so blind |
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Posted by captjack1942 ![]() |
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No accounting for Serendipity, eh Rod?
![]() |
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Posted by Rod |
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Relying on Serendipity makes you a "Prince of Serendip". I am no 'prince'...science does not rely on just good luck. It needs observation, reasoning, and experimentation. Good luck may happen---then you win the lottery and don't have to worry about anything except greedy relatives....... If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by A2 ![]() |
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Initiative often succeeds where rationalization cannot. None so blind |
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Posted by WIN ![]() |
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ciao ALL my friends
![]() just a little contribution from me on this subject : I remember a few years ago a french soler discovered that jybing in several steps was reducing the perf loss, so I tried to see how it worked ......I did it once only and never again . two main reasons for that : 1) by so doing the boat runs a longer course , and some of your perf loss saving is gone already, and the time at lower speed below VMG during the maneuver eats away another portion of the saving 2) ( and this is the main reason ) ....after the jybe your angle towards the next mark will no longer be the same and could be worst .......for longtime. It is very true that also the contrary of item 2) may occur , but item 1) still stands . IRL an offshore jybe is " smoothed" not so much for performance , but maily for smoothing the maneuver by the crew and keep the spi flying ......whilst , in-shore jybing around a mark smoothing the jybe could cost a number of positions . Hope you all accept it as an opinion and contribution .. ciaooooooooooooo ![]() ![]() ![]() Piero PS : I did win quite a number of races in SOL , but never because I smoothed jybing or tacking to reduce perf loss.. ![]() |
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The ARCH competition is transitioning now from the Arabian Sea to the Pacific Ocean, featuring a 1000 nm route from Auckland to Nouméa. Organized by the Royal Akarana Yacht Club, the race last occurred in 2018 and was set to resume on May 25, 2024, after a lengthy hiatus. However, due to political unrest in New Caledonia, the event has been cancelled. Fortunately, those situations do not impact our virtual race, so prepare your Open 60 for another exciting adventure.
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Above you see a stratospheric balloon, that if only we had gribs at that altitude would get blasted along quite rapidly and predictably. Alas we just have our SOL balloon that sails rather lower to the sea and that we have crossed the Atlantic in, west to east, last year for the first time in the southern hemisphere. So much fun was had by all, that this year we will attempt the Indian Ocean, but in four legs. Another great piece of fiction, the voyages of Sinbad By Balloon not magic carpet, although you may need a bit of magic to make any progress at times. Pack your wicker basket full for your first leg of at least 2300nm from Sri Lanka to Madagascar; it’s not a picnic hamper, you could be in the air for longer than you hoped!
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Back in the 7th C BCE, pharaoh Necho II may have commissioned Phoenician sailors to explore south down the Red Sea and if possible return north via the Straits of Gibraltar. Herodotus was inclined to dismiss the story as it included reports of the sun standing in the north, which had to be nonsense. Silly old Herodotus, but who cares, 2800 years later we will repeat the feat, but we’ll go the other way round, and not in a galley but in different modern sailing yachts, beginning with the comfort of an IY 14.98 for the first leg of 1900nm from Port Said to Tangier.
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