Sailonline.org - Online Sailing

Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Tweets by @sailonline

Board » General Discussion » Sailors with routers

Posted by Husse Posts 10 Registered at 2010-11-21 15:27:24	2014-11-06 22:59:00 - Re: Sailors with routers
	Kroppyer Thanks for your thought's, but we don't have to make it so difficult. We can do it as we allways done it, race to the finnish. But we can have two classes, R for Routers, L for Livesailors. The rules for the definitions between L &R can be discussed, the final decision should bee taken by the board. We can race to the finnish together but with the differnce that R & L are presented in two different podiums, one in R & one in L. We don't need too make it so difficult, we all like to sail and race. //Husse Husse
Posted by Dingo Posts 94 Registered at 2013-03-09 04:23:58	2014-11-07 06:56:59 - Re: Sailors with routers
	I think it would be interesting if an expert in SOTP sailing could explain in detail the techniques used in both long term and short term course planning, and then we could all understand a little more what the value of those podium positions for SOTPers would involve. I haven't seen much discussion of it yet. It is also worth noting that there cost is no impediment to acquiring a router. There are more free routers available than there are commercial ones, and a few of the free ones do a very good job. Most only take an hour or two to understand their use. It takes a few more hours to also understand when not to use them. Please also understand I take nothing away from those who sail for fun or indeed the mental challenge of SOTP course reckoning. I'm just not seeing the value in a class for that activity. On the other I do admire all those who are not particularly IT gifted who have taken on the challenge of learning how to use a router, or how to access and understand pilot charts, or who have been reading about long range weather forecasting in an effort to increase their pleasure and performance in SOL. Whilst they might not be on the podium much or even at all, they've learnt a lot and have moved from positions in the top 100-200 into positions in the top twenties and thirties. I think that is to be admired, even if it isn't rewarded with a podium medal or certificate. --- Last Edited by Dingo at 2014-11-07 08:40:05 --- --- Last Edited by Dingo at 2014-11-07 08:44:27 --- --- Last Edited by Dingo at 2014-11-07 10:40:02 ---
Posted by Dana1 Posts 23 Registered at 2012-09-26 17:33:43	2014-11-07 16:30:54 - Re: Sailors with routers
	I think Husse pointed out some valid points but it does seem a little bit artificial to me. Like some pointed out a router is a tool to speed up calculations that could be done in, lets say Excel, or pen and paper. Should there then also be different results for people who spend 2 hours or more on SOL per day, and those who spend less energy? We could also have a separate class for those that do not even use the WX slider, except to see the pretty animation of the wind changes over time. A PSS (Point and Shoot Sailor) podium. Sarcasm here. We only have a few hundred active sailors. Most of the shorter races are raced without routers anyway. This should only be considered for Ocean races. In my opinion not even there.
Posted by kroppyer Posts 346 Registered at 2010-02-05 15:25:55	2014-11-07 17:24:46 - Re: Sailors with routers
	In theory you can do everything with spreadsheets that a router can. Are all spreadsheets allowed in the 'L' group? Or only those with some restrictions? Let's forget about enforcing the rules for a moment. We're racing here, we are competitive. Part of that is finding the best approach within the rules. You can't do that when the rules are not clear. A rule "You may only use this list of software <list>" is clear. "You may not route" is not clear. _____ What I find most important to get you to understand about my previous proposal: It leaves sol as is. Nothing changes. But, it adds an option for anyone to start groups, each with it's own ranking, and own set of rules. If you think "You may not route" is clear enough, get a group of solers together that agree to stick to that rule, and you have a group. You can also start a group only for friends. How does that sound? Hopefully a bit less complicated and for some a bit more familiar.
Posted by Husse Posts 10 Registered at 2010-11-21 15:27:24	2014-11-07 20:45:30 - Re: Sailors with routers
	I think you all have great idea's and good points. But i think you all are missing my point, i maybe wasn't clear enough about that. I want to attract new SOL'ers, or at least don't loose more SOL'ers. I don't have anything against routers, excel-sheets or whatever anyone uses to find the best way to the endpoint. The point is that we are getting fewer and fewer. We need to do some Changes to attract new SOL'ers, everything has to change sometime to develope. I think new SOL'ers quit when they don't have a chance against the "elite" who all probably uses routers. Maybe it should be in the manual, as Dingo so wisely says, nobody has explained how to use a router. Maybe even SOL should have their own downloadable router to SOL'ers to use, with a manual to it. This problem isn't new to SOL, during 2012 people stoped using SOL, as it is probably today. starting to get over it It's not about router or no router, it's about making SOL attractive and attracting new members who like too sail in the virtual live as well as i irl. __________ edited to make a link out of a url to prevent column overlap --- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2014-12-22 22:30:00 --- Husse
Posted by Husse Posts 10 Registered at 2010-11-21 15:27:24	2014-11-07 20:47:25 - Re: Sailors with routers
	We all can make SOL better, if we put some effort into it. Husse
Posted by Mega30 Posts 6 Registered at 2008-03-07 07:55:54	2014-11-07 21:16:28 - Re: Sailors with routers
	The line between to calculate future changes, or just looking at predictor, wind arrows or present isochrones should divide the SOLers so easily that it should not be hard to define two classes. ???
Posted by kroppyer Posts 346 Registered at 2010-02-05 15:25:55	2014-11-07 22:00:43 - Re: Sailors with routers
	I don't think we (you) want two classes, I think you want a non-router sub class. So, adding a non-router ranking (in which only people are ranked who agree not to use a router) would be sufficient? Step 2 is clearly defining what is routing and what is not. I might be the only one with problems here. Hypothetically, if your predictor line would take into account your DCs. So not a twa/cc predictor line, but one that follows your DCs. And let's say that line doesn't extend for 6h, but for 6 days. Let's say it draws small parts of the polar every 15 minutes (so that it starts to look like isochrones). Then we add an option so that you can simulate a list of DCs without actually entering them as actual DCs yet. And to make it a bit more userfriendly it can show multiple of those simulated predictor lines at once, given different sets of DCs. As a handy tool we can automatically flag the the predictor lines/sets of DCs/routes that are "behind" (slower than) other predictor lines. If needed, we can remove all flagged (slow) routes, leaving only the faster ones. Let's add an option to create about 10 routes from an existing route, those 10 routes follow the existing route and diverge 15 minutes after the last DC in 10 slightly different headings. And finally, let's add an option to automatically do such "route splitting" for every existing route, followed by flagging and removing slow routes until we reach the end of our Wx. At what point did this predictor line become a router? That's why I would advise to use a list of allowed software rather than "Don't use a router". ___ In the end, you don't care about what should be called routing and what not, you just want a group of people that use similar tools as you do, and have a little competition within that group. At least, that's what I want. --- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2014-11-07 22:04:48 ---
Posted by Mega30 Posts 6 Registered at 2008-03-07 07:55:54	2014-11-07 22:31:15 - Re: Sailors with routers
	Kroppyer: Very good, thank you! I have to read your comment some more times to understand it fully. But I like your approach to the subject, and your brilliant thinking about this eternal problem.
Posted by Alan (iomkiwi) Posts 39 Registered at 2011-11-02 07:13:43	2014-11-08 09:19:30 - Re: Sailors with routers
	From a few comments I have seen in chat, SOL used to have races where you could choose different classes of yacht for the same race? If the server is still set up to handle this can the system just be modified so you pick your category as you register? Maybe put in other categories for team boats etc as well if possible? can each category just be assigned a different boat colour?

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Carib Rum Run 2024

Welcome to the Caribbean and Sailonline's annual Pirate race, with your goal to finish in Cancun on or before International Talk Like a Pirate Day , the 19th of September! This is a 1759nm slalom through the rum islands of the Caribbean in our magnificent Clipper 240 tall ships! Our mission is to collect barrels from the region's distilleries and carry them to the rum-parched beaches of Mexico. Join SYC before race end and ye befuddled scallywags can disguise yer boat for this race only with a pirate name!
Race #1836
INFO by brainaid.de
Clipper 240 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Sep 09th 17:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

SSANZ Triple Series 2024 - Race 3

Welcome to the third and final race of this year's SSANZ Triple Series on the waters off Auckland, New Zealand. This is the Lewmar 50, about 39nm along the southern shore Waiheke Island out to Tarahiki island and back for a finish in Islington Bay, and as ever we will be sailng Young 88s, against the IRL members of the Young 88 Association!
Race #1827
INFO by brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SSANZ - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
September 13 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Sep 06th 21:15 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Flight of the Godwit - Anchorage to Wellington 2024

Welcome to the return flight of our bar-tailed Godwit! This race is the third and concluding leg, reflecting the bird's annual migratory route, and simultaneously the ninth leg of the 2024 Ocean Race Championship. The voyage promises to be not only a test of skill and strategy but an immersive experience in the beauty of the vast Central Pacific Ocean. Join us as we push the boundaries of seafaring prowess on this epic adventure.
Let's fly like a Godwit!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1832
INFOby brainaid.de
Maxi Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: GWT - OCQ3 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Sep 02nd 11:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Round Greenland 2024

Just as Skip Novak was embarking for Kamchatsky, Amyr Klink also quietly slipped his Antarctica moorings and by now Paratii 2 has reached Reykjavik, where he invites you to join him on Leg 5 of our High Latitudes Series, a full 3650nm circumnavigation of Greenland. The course is clockwise round, so down the North Atlantic to Cape Farewell, then up the Davis Strait into Baffin Bay and on into the Arctic Ocean proper, where, hopefully and certainly virtually, Paratii 2’s special ice-breaker features will get us thorough the summer ice out onto the Greenland Sea and back to Reykjavik. Stay warm!
Race #1780
INFOby brainaid.de
Paratii 2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: HLAT - SYC
Race starts: Aug 29th 19:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

San Francisco to Ushuaia 2024

After a superlong RTW-leg3 (27 days), we have had a month to recover, and maintain our boat, in order to continue our around the world race. Leg 4, even longer than the previous, takes us from California to the world's southernmost city Ushuaia. No waypoints, even "the Ditch" is an option, but maybe a bit too much of a treat. With 6300 nm to go, the estimated duration of this race 29 days. This course is also the August edition of our ocean race championship.
PRIZE: SMPF
Race# 1717
INFO from brainaid.de
Swan 65 PARTICULARS
WX updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ3 - OCCH - RTW - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Thursday,
September 12 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Aug 05th 11:00 Registration Closed

▶ Flash

GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client