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this is what its about for me.well said phillip

Why? Well, to gain an advantage by automation, of course. Basically the exact opposite of what Eddie was doing. Yet not a single post of how unfair that would be. And I am not so sure there aren't already people doing precisely that.

its game as far as i'm concerned. i've learn't more following the likes of brainaid winston rafa than in two years of reading books on weather pattern plans. in fact all the leaders, to try to understand why that move worked. i could not care less if they have the knowledge to build a program that works for them,as someone else said brainaid should not feel he has to put his system out for everyone to use.

you should all get a life, life is just a game, and this game is the one i choose to use at the moment.
didn't too far back nick says it all here

Well each to his / her own, and I mean that sincerely. A couple of months ago I made the decision to not use any software outside of SOL- though I wasn't above a bit of advice (thanks Pete!)For me, it is simply more fun than using a router. This means in the current environment I have almost no chance of making a top 50 finish and have to be extremely on my game to make a top 100. But you know what? that's fine with me. It seems like I'm competing in a different "cruising" class and if I can catch a few hotshots- so much the better. Sol is one of the coolest, BEST MANNERED, environments on the net and I would caution about fragmenting it with different and ultimately unenforcable divisions. Yes, it's a competetive world out there (and in here) but I think we can all choose how we compete. For me it's personal best using the rules I generated for myself.
My 2 bits worth.

Nick Thornton
Blue Magic
wow
...one of the guys behind the game...
Only just spotted this thread - like my sailing, I'm so far beinnd.....

I have been quite vocal about the use of "exterior" software, I believe this game should be all about one's own brain power, and nothing else.

I think what does it for me is that when Brain is sailing, every dog and it's mother follow him, because you know that even though you won't beat him, you'll pretty much be going the right direction. Take the recent races where he hasn't entered, the fleet is spread out like marmite on toast. For me, that makes it so much more fascinating. Take the current Tripoli race - I've gone out on a limb as I believe that's the correct tactic. Had Brain entered and gone in the other direction, that's where I would have gone, but without knowing why.

That said......I'll be doing the Newport Bermuda race again this year, but this time I'll be so much more aware of navigation as opposed to trimming.

So....Eddie - got any plans for next June?
Time to add a few comments of my own too...

I agree with Baggus about it being a game and testing one's own brain power. I came to SOL with a long background of mountain navigation which has at times to be quite critical; now the sailing on here is critical to wind (and of course the finish!) and I have thoroughly enjoyed the intellectual challenge. I've been pleased with the results and circumstances allowing will race more in the future but always without any additional tools.

So that is the intellectual challenge dealt with, what about the competitive. Well I revel in that too (having just pipped Salmon by 8 seconds within the last 15mins of the Miami - Kingstown race). However, I really think we need to find a way of competing in different classes such as for those using additional software and those just using their brains and I know I write on behalf of a good number of other SOLers. So did I finish 59th or 20something on brain power alone?

Its a great game and keep improving the racing without bringing in anymore the tools. In fact a race without the 6h projection would also be interesting!

Thanks SOL
Steve
That said......I'll be doing the Newport Bermuda race again this year, but this time I'll be so much more aware of navigation as opposed to trimming.

So....Eddie - got any plans for next June?
<end of quote>(Note to webmaster: Quotes should be destinguishable from reply text better...)

No yet, hehe. Sounds very interesting.

--- Last Edited by Eddie C. Dost at 2009-12-07 11:21:21 ---
_/)_/)_/)
The sea is lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to sail before I sleep, And miles to sail before I sleep.
<quote>
However, I really think we need to find a way of competing in different classes such as for those using additional software and those just using their brains.

Steve
<unquote>
While I understand and agree with that thought, I foresee several problems with a class system based on what you call "additional software". First, you have to define exactly what "additional software" is. Obviously, a commercial product like Sailplanner would fall into that category, but why shouldn't Excel or any homegrown VMC calculator be considered "additional software" as well? Second, such a class system would heavily rely on the players' honesty and with exceptional performances there would always be room for doubt. Third, non-router classed players could monitor and follow known users of routing software, so it is no real solution to the problem.

I think the solution is several classes based on users' past performances with different polars for each class. Similar to the Le Mans car race, several classes (LMP1, LMP2, GT1, GT2) competing in a single race with winners in each class and an overall winner. Basically, give the best ranked players really fast (or really slow boats) and let them fight it out amongst themselves.

There would be rankings for each class with rules for promotion/relegation to a different class. There could be extra races for single classes so bonus points could be earned. And perhaps I'm oversimplifying, but the SOL engine has the capability to handle separate polars, but the website needs to be overhauled to reflect rankings for each class and to assign the appropriate polars to each member of each class.

Another suggestion: stealth starts. No tracks or other boats until, say, six hours into the race.

My final 2c.
Philip
I never said it was going to be easy to work classes and I think most problems have been mentioned in chat previously. However, yours is an interesting concept with different boats / polars for classes based on performance. 76T and I were chatting about pursuit races the other day where the fast boats on performance sail from behind on archived weather and theoretically all boats cross the finish line together!

Better still in standard races it would be to only see 'line of sight' boats in the immediate circle around you. Still might need a stealth start for the first 6h though! Having said that, it would not help you learn to navigate better and at present looking at the fleet really helps you learn why you are not so good, other boats are worse and yet others better.
A few observations on my first anniversary of SOL.

I’ve made good online friends here. (Thanks to the Chat Room) – Great feature.

I’ve learned a great deal of sailing navigation and geography.
The reason for me learning so much is in first place the design of the game, the polars, the wind arrows and the weather slide. But also the ability to see every other boat and their tracks.

To me SOL is not a game but a learning tool, a sailing simulation. I bet we are all winners here. I have a feeling that anyone who dedicates time to SOL will became better tacticians in real life.

I have no problem in seeing people using router software to get there faster. I certainly would if I had the time and the skills to write software. At the moment I learn by observation. Please, do not hide the tracks and the other boats. Hide the boats and tracks would diminish the learning tool aspect of SOL.

I’ve been thinking about the software use or not use for the past months and my conclusion is to stagger very short races with long races. I don’t think outside router software is effective in short races specially the ones with lots of islands and SLI. (Don’t you like those? :)

So, having a mix of short and long races we are going to satisfy both camps, software users and non-users, if that is at all possible.

Either way, please do not let SOL turn into another video game where luck is a bigger factor.

Thanks,

Antonio Ferrer
(Tuze1)

Wow :-) :-)
...one of the guys behind the game...

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