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Board » General Discussion » Sailonline Yacht Club (SYC) Rankings

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I'm all for creating divisions as far as ranking is concerned. However I enjoy competing against everybody at the same time; routers, non-routers, AI's, ET's, etc. I believe splitting the fleet into different starts is counterproductive in a "the best brings out the best" kind of sense. There's a ton of very talented IRL sailors on SOL, most of them are at the top of the leaderboard consistently REGARDLESS of the tools they choose to use and I like trying to match wits with them. It's a game and the point of the game is to get to the finish line before your adversary, but most of the time I see it as a learning tool, I enjoy it when I screw up and I enjoy it a little bit more when I do well. The point is I always enjoy it.


Schakel, you have some good ideas in your text, please let me quote this here for easy reference to everybody:

-- Schakel's text attachment: --

Class racing

The system I want to propose is an addition to the current SYC ranking. The entire Sailonline fleet would be split up into several groups or classes, based on past performances. For instance, the top 25 ranked sailors would constitute a Pro Sailor Class (or Skipper Class, whatever you want to call it). A second group, for instance the currently ranked 26 – 75 sailors, go into a the Semi Pro Sailor (or Navigator class) and so on. The number of classes would depend on the total number of Sailonline members.
Races would be held as normal and each race would see one overall winner plus a winner in each class. This will ensure that more participants will have something to race for, even victory or podium places within their own class. Sailors who are not using or opposed to weather routers need no longer need to frown at routers, because they are in a competition of their own and at the same time can be proud when doing well overall without any aids. It will introduce into the game the spirit of racing against ones peers.

Promotion and relegation

To add a certain level of competition to the opposite ends of a class, to prevent a class from being dominated or to allow 'weaker' class members an opportunity to do well in another class, there should be rules for promotion to or relegation from a higher class. Promotion or relegation could be done either after each race, monthly, 2 monthly or even 3 monthly, and be dictated by the low-score rankings.
To increase opportunities for promotion, bonus races restricted to a single class could be held. Sailors may opt to voluntarily relegate by skipping a few races or “coasting” in them. In order to prevent bouncing back and forth between two classes, there should be a time restriction for being able to promote after having been relegated.

The browser client

Ideally, the client would show at least all members belonging to the sailor’s class as boats so he/she can easily identify against whom he/she is racing. Other boats could be shown as the familiar dots, possibly with the exception of the overall podium places.

Different polars

Once a class system is in place, several other options would become available. Besides organizing bonus races as mentioned above, it would be possible to assign different polars to different classes. This could not only serve to prevent one class from following another, it could also affect allround race results by giving the slower polar to the better sailor.
Another idea could be to grant certain classes full access in some races to Sailplanner to show the benefits of weather routing, give tactical insights, etc.
The sea is lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to sail before I sleep, And miles to sail before I sleep.
Hello All!!!!
Thanks schakel I do agree with Brain!!!! there s some good ideas in your text!!! :-)
not very sure regarding polars...
But still as long as we can have fun all together!!!!!!
just a few words to return to the little war between routers and not routers: routers are not a problem at all!!!! progressing in commpetition is a question of time you spend on the race and the way you learn at every race!!!!!when I started 6 month ago I was not in the top 20 at all!!!!!!!!I dont plan to be number one at all!! my plan is to to have fun and to learn something new every time!!!!
I understand that it can be frustrating sometimes!!! lollll and usually I m mad against myself lollll not against routers lolllllll but it s part of the game!!!! And when you compet in real it's the same!!!!! ;-))
If we want a division system it must be dead simple and users should grasp what it roughly is about without reading any text. My experience in making software and websites is that if more than 3 words placed together, most users won't read read what it says regardless of placement. So let's keep it reasonable simple at least :) Stuff like staggered starts is IMO way to complicated however I'm open anyone to try to prove me otherwise!
Hi all!
to be short I like the actual system, even if I am a SOTP (using brainaid as router sometime eheh) .
The only little thing that I am missing is a Nation ranking ;-)
The only little thing that I am missing is a Nation ranking ;-)

Wiz' system was very well received and I think that the "newbie" category probably served as a bigger incentive for recruitment and retention (the real problem?) than any manipulation of the SYC could be.

Mostly off-topic, but the "series" category on the front page would probably be more relevant if thinned down to active and most recently concluded series.
My 2 cents:
Dividing the Rankings into Divisions is OK, unless it didn't lead into dividing the Fleet. Things like hiding the other Divisions or seperated Starts may be done occasionaly, but should not get normality.

For me it would be more important, to get a Ranking based on the Skills rather then on time spent on racing. Something like counting the best x Races during the last y Months. Maybe 24 Races in 12 Months. That would give skilled SOLers the Chance to get on top Rankings without doing every Race, but no one would be punished for doing so.

If there is a possibility to compute the finishing-times, it would be possible to compute something like a personal Handycap.
Let's say the Braintrain finished a 1000m race in 10 hours less than the medium SOLer. That would give him a Handicap of 36 for the next race, which means he has to be 36 sec/nm faster than the medium Sailor to be equal. After some time of collecting data, it should be possible to get to fair Handycaps, so it gets possible to compare even Routers to Non-routers.
Time-on-time performance handicapping could be doable as a complementary ranking alongside the "Normal" one. The SYC would look identical to the way it is now, with an extra column for handicap.

You'd need two leaderboards: the offical one and one for corrected tim for those interested.

Might be kind of neat, in that it would give you three performance measures for every race: Actual placement, corrected result and your handicap itself... Your ToT # would give another read on your progress, and it could be used occasionally to assign classes for mixed-fleet racing etc.

If you wanted to designate a division (in name/result, not physically separate) you could do it on handicap rather than rank. The calcs and the result are essentially the same.

Maybe the best "feature" is that it would be almost entirely optional. Everyone who likes things simple free to disregard.
We all know who our competition is.

I certainly know mine;
I know the ones that I can overtake without much effort, I know the ones that are always around me and I certainly know the ones that even with two eyes wide open it is hard to pass.

To me one of the greatest satisfactions of SOL is the fact that we play all together, we see all boats even the ones that we perceive to be better, so it gives a lot of satisfaction when we are ahead of them or even finish ahead. To divide the fleet and worse to hide the classes from one another it will take that pleasure away.

Please don’t divide the fleet and I am strongly against different sets of polars in the same race (With the exception of the annual IMSYC race).

What is next? We will be discussing the rules to get promoted or demoted?

Antonio (zero)

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