Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??

Page: First Previous 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next

Posted by
ita10267


Users avatar

Posts
88
Registered at
2008-12-29 10:33:09
2011-07-11 14:57:46 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Ah...the boatsitting issue again!

So I can comment.....again!

The one reason I am not taking part in the recent SOL races, (leaving all the fun to Sir WINSTON the GREAT :D ) with ita10267 is because I cannot steer the boat by myself all the time as I wanted. The last Gotland race was the demonstration. I left the race (TWA=0) with a fair lead (given the opponent) as I would have needed help from a friend in rounding the next mark.
On the other hand I take great pleasure in sailing the ITA_2011 teamboat because it gives me the opportunity of chatting with friends regarding options and strategy, something I used to do with my strongest most terrible opponents (brainaid, Wiz, SWE54, Mac et al.) in the chat room which is now becoming a place for chitchatting about everything but sailing or whining about unfairness of the competition.

I will always remember the times when, at 2am, I was discussing with Eddie the new weather patterns and after 5 mins trying to attack him (fool me) staying awake the next hours.

Now most of the newbies fear that "they will never win a race". This is totally untrue, everyone has been a newcomer and can win races or, even better, sit at #1 of the SYC Ranking.

Clearly the technical situation has evolved and we all agree that without a reliable weather routing software winning is very difficult (brainaid was the first and we ALL cheered him as a weather routing guru).

But getting one is simple and free of charge. Learning how it works is more difficult and using it for winning races is even more difficult. But possible.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-07-11 17:53:49 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
I do not feel I am "whining" about the unfairness----I am stating that the rule is ambiguous and confusing. I 'race' here to challenge my own mind--not that of 'brainaid'---I do my own predictions--and fail my own 'failures'. I,too, feel that I 'cannot' win, unless I let brainaid have all the 'fun'---but I race more against myself than anybody else.
I would like the rules to be exact and specific---after-all, the end result is exact and specific.
I do notice that 'brain-aid' is no longer racing here with us. Is it because he has become bored with the certainty of winning?

--- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-07-11 17:56:22 ---
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
impala_ood


Users avatar

Posts
8
Registered at
2011-07-08 15:47:37
2011-07-11 21:48:09 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Hi new to the site, in my first race and having a whale of a time. Had no idea such a thing as sail online existed and only wish I had discovered it ages ago. Still so much to learn!

Now this whole cheating, unfair, acceptable thread has probably rightly run out of steam and I'm loath to stoke it all up again but looking at it through the eyes of a (SOL) innocent I thought it might be worth throwing in my quick observation, because to my mind it doesn't really seem complicated at all....

one boat per person, or gang up with some friends and share a boat, but whether as an individual or a team you can only have one entry in a race.

If you've given your password to someone, then you have given them permission to control your boat - end of. So in the initial situation they by default had a boat sharing agreement.

My first race I was concentrating on doing better than the boats closest to me. Just by watching their names on the screen, by constantly checking their track, knowing we were in the same wind, I did develop an infinity with them even though I had not even chatted with them. A bit like real life, Open Ocean, humanity joined together albeit on separate craft, in an adverse environment. So I surprised myself how concerned I felt when I noticed one of the boats near me against whom I was in a direct race, fail to change course and beach. If I could have woken him up and alerted him to the danger I would have done, not just sailed past. If I had access to his password would I have changed his course without a baby sitting agreement specific to this race? No. But if someone else in the same situation felt it was appropriate to do that then it's not for me to criticise them.

I like the idea of doing it on my own. I think it's great that people develop teams and I'd be honoured if one day I was good enough to be invited to join one, but that does seem to be a very different concept from taking it upon yourself to alter someones course without their permission, when potentially someone else in the same position elsewhere on the course, playing in good faith but without the contacts, is left to go on the rocks.

The overall conclusion I'm left with is shit happens! These sort of things have to be left to the individuals conscience. We all do things spur of the moment to help out friends, we might not do it again with hind sight, and if some of us do it all the time well then that wouldn't seem to be in the spirit of the game, but above all don't get sucked into the reactionary rule making route! If SOL has worked for this long as it is, and is clearly this well loved by the people that take part, don't go down the route of making rule after rule after rule because it will get complicated and all the fun will definitely then be driven out of the game.

Blimey - I thought this was only going to be a quick post!!

Happy sailing all.. can't wait to keep learning from all of you

Rich (Impala)
Posted by
ShamrockPirate


Users avatar

Posts
189
Registered at
2010-12-03 17:49:57
2011-07-12 00:06:56 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
LOVE IT!
I have been loath to join in this on-going fray but the succinct observation of our latest SOLoist, Impala, just made it impossible to resist. One boat; 12 boats; singlehanding; 42-crew (like a racing J-Class) or auto-pilot with 72+ hours on DC.... it doesn't matter.
"Shit happens"

I could not agree more that it is utterly painful to see a close competitor go BBQ for untold reasons. Maybe fell asleep, lost internet connection, house was on fire, whatever. It's the nature of the online environment.
But I have yet to understand why boats choose to go TWA=0 just because they could not make a "perfect rounding". Better to retire than risk a few DC's? I don't deny them the choice... I just don't understand it.

As for the realism often discussed, SOL does the best possible job of this in this medium but really... does the same boat ALWAYS win IRL? No. Something breaks, they hourglass the spin on a gybe, they don't get the lift they expected. All manner of natural and man-made calamities befall even the best after the starting gun fires.

I would, once again, raise the possibility of Class Divisions. With all the elegant and amazing upgrades of late (multitudes of thanks to the Chief Engineer and all in the engineroom), this would not seem a difficult tweak. Much like choosing from multiple boats, the same would be true here. Each boat would declare the division they plan to race in for each competition. My previous suggestion was 3 divisions: Pro, Performance and Recreational.

I would welcome a new thread with suggestions on what would constitute each but the point would be the ability to compete against like-minded SOLers. This would NOT mean that a strict single-hander with a super-secret password and no idea of routing software and gribs would be excluded from the Pro category, you would just know what the playing field was like and who was on it. And if you hit podium... all the sweeter!!!

I would hope that segmenting of the fleet would not go against the all-inclusive philosophy of SOL but perhaps it would open up more interaction (maybe add some new chatrooms) as SOLers watched their proficiency grow and progress through the ranks.

Just my $0.02 USD (or 0.0142477 EUR if you prefer)

SP
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-07-12 14:30:34 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
The only trouble with your theory, ShamrockPirate, is that, "if it doesn't matter", then why bother at all with separate classes of SOLers?
The very fact that you have gone to the trouble of considering the problem, means that "it does matter"!
To you, to me, and probably to most SOLers.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-07-13 16:04:44 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
I think you misunderstand what SP is saying 'doesn't matter' Rod??

<snip>


--- Last Edited by Aaron Gage at 2011-07-13 16:06:24 ---
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-07-13 17:48:00 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Most SOLers are probably much like me--trying to do our best while playing alone. We accept that many use external routing aids, and it could be our choice to use them too, if we wanted.
But many SOLers also use the assistance of external partners, so that their boats remain controlled while the 'sailor' sleeps, or attends to the ordinary tasks of daily life. However the rules clearly state "one sailor-one boat". The only justification for so-called boat-sitting is in the FAQs, NOT the RULES.
If the rules need to be changed to allow multiple helmsmen, then change them.
But then, do you think that a single sailor, or a small group, should be allowed to have as large a group of boats as they care to manage? Bear in mind that this might mean that the upper part of the SYC list might be just a large group of boats controlled by only one controlling entity.
I do not think that the present members of the SYC list (I am not one of them) would then be equally pleased with such a rule change.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
BigRayRay


Users avatar

Posts
7
Registered at
2010-08-14 02:55:40
2011-07-14 05:59:34 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
I sail solo. I sleep 8 hours and work about 10. When I first started soling I thought boats were playing follow the leader taking advantage of the good sailor's skills, but now I understand it's 5 or 10 guys sailing each others boats. Rest assured if I ever win a race. I will have won the race on my own.
Posted by
NZL_undercover


Users avatar

Posts
65
Registered at
2009-07-31 03:29:32
2011-07-14 10:33:54 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
What a load of crap!!
Boats controlled by groups of people!!!
I think you both are in fantasy land.

Its people like you guy's that ruin this type of online experience for me.

I am wondering if I can be bothered renewing my SYC membership.
Posted by
ita10267


Users avatar

Posts
88
Registered at
2008-12-29 10:33:09
2011-07-14 10:38:06 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
finally!

Page: First Previous 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Azores Challenge 2025


Another almost forgotten race at SOL. For only the second time we will sail the Jester Azores Challenge route from 2016.
What is the Jester Challenge?
Every two years a group of singlehanded sailors heads for Plymouth to sail the Atlantic. The Jester Challenge is not a race in any way, shape or form, simply an opportunity for skippers to test their boats and their seagoing mettle in a supportive and non-competitive environment. Skippers can make stopovers in other ports or harbours if they so desire, and there is no stigma attached to retiring from the event. Each sailor takes full responsibility for him or herself, their boat and the equipment they carry. There are no entry fees and virtually no rules, although there are guidelines.
Our rules are a bit different and we have a 60ft trimaran at our disposal and we have 1200nm to cover. Let's see what our yachts and their skippers can do. We wonder what you will take on board?
Race #1898
INFO from brainaid.de
60ft_Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ1 - ARCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Mar 17th 17:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Melbourne Osaka Cup Double-Handed Yacht Race 2025

Welcome once again to what these days is Sailonline’s almost annual virtual Melbourne to Osaka Yacht Race. In real life, this double-handed 5500 nm race between these two sister cities, one deep in the southern hemisphere, the other high in the northern hemisphere, is run every four to five years, and this year is such a year. So, this year’s online version is in sync with the Melbourne Osaka Cup 2025 organised by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria (ORCV), and the Sandringham (SYC) and Osaka Hokko (OHYC) yacht clubs. We’ll be racing the well-known First 40, a popular size of boat which should be a good match for many of the boats entered in the real race. With the doldrums unavoidably lying across our course, you can expect to be at virtual sea for at least a month!
Race #1669
INFO by brainaid.de
First 40 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 16th 06:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Channel Islands 500 Yacht Race 2025


Prepare for an exhilarating offshore challenge in the Channel Islands 500 Yacht Race! Collaborating with the Newport Harbor Yacht Club, Sailonline brings you a 500-nautical-mile test of skill, speed, and strategy. Starting in Santa Barbara, you’ll navigate between Santa Cruz Island and Santa Rosa Island, rounding three marks before finishing in San Diego. Our SOLers will be competing in their Melges 40s, a high-performance offshore racer designed by the Botin partnership. Who will conquer the Pacific and claim victory? Set your course and race for glory!
Race #1899
INFO by brainaid.de
Melges 40 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 14th 22:30 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tristan da Cunha to Coronation Island 2025

The adventure continues as we embark on the second leg of the RWW series, racing from Tristan da Cunha to the remote and uninhabited Coronation Island, NO, Elephant Island. Nestled between the Scotia Sea and the Weddell Sea, both island were named by 19th C British whalers. Prepare for a thrilling journey through the Roaring Forties and Furious Fifties, where relentless winds and challenging seas will test the mettle of every crew. This leg will be sailed aboard the historically iconic Steinlager II and is part of the prestigious OCCH 2025 series. The RWW series ranking will be determined by each team's best 7 out of 8 race results, so every moment counts! Are you ready to face the ultimate test of skill and endurance?
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1890
INFO by brainaid.de
Steinlager II PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ1 - RWW - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
March 21 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Mar 03rd 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sinbad by Balloon 2025 - Dondra to Toamasina


Above you see a stratospheric balloon, that if only we had gribs at that altitude would get blasted along quite rapidly and predictably. Alas we just have our SOL balloon that sails rather lower to the sea and that we have crossed the Atlantic in, west to east, last year for the first time in the southern hemisphere. So much fun was had by all, that this year we will attempt the Indian Ocean, but in four legs. Another great piece of fiction, the voyages of Sinbad By Balloon not magic carpet, although you may need a bit of magic to make any progress at times. Pack your wicker basket full for your first leg of at least 2300nm from Sri Lanka to Madagascar; it’s not a picnic hamper, you could be in the air for longer than you hoped!
Race #1883
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SBB
RACE CLOSE: Tuesday,
March 18 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Feb 05th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Patrick70119
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client